SPONSORSHIP IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR MOTOR.

The text below is unashamedly copied from another charity event forum I frequent (not my words and edited to remove any obvious names):

Quote :

I was talking to a parts and accessory supplier today and I found what he told me quite disturbing,

To quote - "The xxxxxx generates a lot of begging letters. Too many. Sadly not one ever asks for money to donate. They ask for a charitable donation of 'stuff' to bolt on their LR in exchange for the privilege of having our stickers on their LR.

"Best one was a carefully selected shopping list of items including wiper blades because 'they would come in useful' He even established his credentials by pointing out he was a police officer with X years service, I wrote back asking them to clarify how having new wiper blades on his LR was going to benefit the charity! He never replied."


There will be circumstances where you get offered benefits-in-kind instead of cash sponsorship, which is fine so long as you dig into your pockets and contribute what it is worth to you to the fund.

Likewise, some competitors look for a fuel sponsor. Someone paying for your fuel does not help xxxxxxxx it just gives you a cheap ride, pay up the benefit to the fund.

If you contribute to this event getting a reputation for being a bunch of freeloaders as it is seen by some people in the trade, you are fucking up other competitors chances of getting sponsorship and thereby taking money away from the charity.

If you have done this and now realise you did not really think it through, cough up what you feel you owe.

As you can imagine, it has generated a few emotional responses - every one of them supporting the original poster of the above text.

My own reply, and this isn't edited:

Quote :

Outrageous.

If you sign up to do this, or any other charity fundraising event, you should do so at your own cost/expense and effort and with a full knowledge of what it's going to cost you.
No wonder a lot of emails etc... now get ignored by prospective supporters.

ALL funds raised, either by cash donations, or the provision of materials that are then sold/auctioned/raffled should go to the charity concerned.

All my "begging letters" and conversations are always aimed at getting interest in making a donation to the charity - after all that's what we're here to do, fund raise for a charity. PERIOD.
If I do get given any parts, books etc... they get sold in one way or another to generate cash in the charity pot (donation page). Yes, those sponsors do get the recognition of a couple of stickers on the truck and get mentioned whenever possible as a thanks for their support.

There is no way we should use a charity fund raiser to kit our trucks out and if there are folks out there doing just that, then it's not fair on the rest of us and is down right selfish.

I dread to think how much it costs me per year for the three 4x4 charity events I take part in, but I love every minute of it, no matter what the cost.
If it's going to cost you too much to take part, then don't do it.

Yours, OUTRAGED.

Very good and to the point Nick. Lets hope this doesn't happen in our event.

Nick, Couldn't agree more with you. EVERY penny I get goes into the pot and that's how it should be for everybody.

On the other forum, this has also developed into another method of taking pi$$:

Quote :

On a similar note, was having a good chat with the AA chaps at the start this year, and they said there were a few trucks that they felt had been brought to the start in an unroadworthy state, but in the knowledge that the AA were there to sort them out for the weekend. Again, this is taking the pi$$.

Quote :

On the subject of AA support, they do a sterling job help those in trouble, but I've also had similar conversations with them about the roadworthyness of the trucks (on this and another 4x4 event) both at the start, as well as the fact that on the Sunday morning, they had several come up to them looking for help for something that was known to be in need of attention on the Saturday. Had the AA boys known this, they could have made a start on sorting it Sat eve, or early Sun am, not 10 mins before the off.

On this rally, it's even more important to make sure the truck is in tip top condition for the distance and long continuous driving hours.

All very wise words there Nick. I add my own comments specifically about the Help for Heroes 4x4 European Rally;

1. The event is all about fund raising for Help for Heroes and as you correctly say the likes of a free set of wipers on a car doesn't help the injured soldier. Crews know how much the event will cost them well in advance and should be able to budget. Our expectation is quite clear - crews need to get out there and fund raise (eg the Asda w/e) and it must be said the Help for Heroes 4x4 European Rally crews do that.

2. The cars should all turn up fully prepared, serviced and ready for a 3000 miles journey. The AA are there to help in case of an emergency; and not to be imposed upon to change a track rod end that would fail an MOT.

Hear, hear! Well said.

I have a question or 2 in regards to the fuel sponsorship and "discounts" on stuff......
as most of you know i paid my fuel so im just asking the question that went through my head as fuel sponsorship was something i was considering for 2014.

Lets say, that a crew cannot afford to go on the rally without the fuel being paid, a suitable person has offered to pay the fuel bill so that this team can do the rally. Without a sponsor we're going to struggle for 2014, but i'd rather struggle than be frowned upon!!!

Now without the sponsor, there is no team, and they raise therefore £0

Because of the fuel sponsor they can afford to do that rally paying their way appart from the fuel and raise £10k for H4H/the rally fund this year.

At what point does this become wrong? surely the £10k in the pot is better than the £0 because the team couldnt afford to do the event?

We have teams on the rally that have a fuel sponsor already and have done for a few years, does that then mean that these teams are in the "bad books" for raising loads of money over the past few years?

I have been offered parts for the car at a "cost" price which i have accepted previously, therefore no one is out of pocket, i've just paid the cost price for it rather than the company making a profit on what i buy, is this wrong?? I've not asked for it because i do that rally, but certain companies i use and have got to know have offered to do this for me as they think im a good egg!?
i've paid for it, no one is out of pocket and its not "sponsorship" as no one is making or loosing its as though im buying straight from the supplier just i dont have the links to do that?

I was given £100 off of a clutch change by my local indy, as a contribution towards costs, that £100 is in the pot, because i considered this "sponsorship" so its gone in the pot as the company lost out on £100 which was not "profit"

Anything thats been "donated" to our team, the money will end up in the Rally pot eventually, for example i have some books and land rover branded products which i have been given to raffle/ebay off and the stickers i sold last year etc.... all of this as far as im concerned belongs to the "rally" not to me - hence why the money will end up there eventually.

Whats your views peeps? i'd like to think i've always been open and honest, but there is a lot of inexperience here where people dont know how to handle these situations, myself included, hence the questions

Having read the above, asking for wiper blades is completely taking the mick! thats equipping your car using the rally as an excuse for having a poorly equipped car!

The AA do a fantastic job on the rally, but please people, equip your cars, prepare them and if god forbid you break down, im sure these guys will do their best to help, but stupid things like track rod ends and normal maintenence things - get them done before you go.

Prevention rather than cure is always the way forward. Sometimes the unfortunate happens, but dont let it be because you were too lazy and blurry eyed to keep your vehicle in a good running order.

You raise some good points Dan, and ones that have been discussed in the past, although, I believe, no real conclusion drawn.

One possible way of looking at it is "How does the person making the donation/sponsorship want thier money/donation/sponsorship spent?"

Perhaps, if the person making the donation has an express wish that his contribution is to be used towards your running costs (e.g. fuel) then that wish should be honoured??

It's a difficult one to answer .......... hence why it pops up from time to time with no real answer.

My personal position is as above - I enter the rally knowing it's going to cost me somehwere in the region of £2000 - £2500 for the two week trip (entry fee, fuel, food etc... etc...).
Compare this to the cost of a holiday .... not much difference, except on this trip we also have the bonus of raising money for the charity of choice.

But I also see the point of view that a team could raise £1,000,000 but the only way they can actual take part in the rally is to be personally sponsored.

Debate .....

Indeed it is a debate matey,

I think the key thing is, what the sponsor intends the moeny to be used for.

I.e if someone gives you £1000 as sponsorship but doesnt say what to do with it, thats a given - it goes in the pot!
But - if someone approaches you and says i'd like to give you £1000 for fuel/running costs to get you there, then i cant see a problem spending it on that? in an ideal world all money should go to the pot, but in some cases, i know some of the teams cannot afford it!

The reason i was looking at the sponsorship was - as most of you saw on FB i pulled a nice AMG merc out of a ditch in the snow - the chap driving it asked if i was doing the rally again, only to be told i wasnt because i cant afford the £2500 outlay when im looking to buy a house! This chap then said, well what about if i give you the money to do it, to which i refused, as i would then feel as though i was on a freebie, he then suggested that he would pay for my fuel bill for the trip so that costs would come down and i could still go on the rally and raise some money for H4H.

I've already got £500 in my funds for 2014, so i'd like to go really! but i fear the only way i could afford it would be to have some "help" to get me there, i could do it by other means, but why stress the rest of my life to breaking point over finances when i could do the rally comfortably and still raise my bit?

We need to save £40k for a house deposit down here, no easy task, so any little help i can get im likely to take. That said i dont dispute that the more into the pot the better! the gent offering us the money wasnt offering £1000 into the pot, but was offering £1000 to help me out because i was good enough to stop and drag him out of a ditch for nothing but bragging rights?

I've got 4 collections at tescos booked in, one in a shopping centre, and £500 in savings from the past year, im going to help the woodies at their asda collection in july and at their charity shoot in may, so i feel as tho im doing my bit. but without the "help" to get tehre, i wouldnt be doing any of those things as i doubt i'd be able to afford the rally - as seen this year, i cant afford it, had somone had offered the fuel sponsorship earlier, i'd be coming with you this year!

hope that doesnt make me sound selfish at all, thats not me at all, but some of the teams i know who have had fuel sponsorship previously, are some of the higher level fund raisers over the past few years. maybe it gives you an insentive to work harder for it because someon has been so generous to you? i dont know, but i cant see a problem with it as long as its not somone standing outside asda doing a collection and then saying, i've made £1k today so im putting £500 towards fuel, thats not kool! But if its given for the purpose of fuel by somone, i cant see harm in that personally. as long as said teams pull their weight too!

Complicated.

I know a bloke... No names but hes one of macs biggest fundraisers by a long way but personally i think he's not that well off.
If it wasnt for personal/fuel sponsorship then mac would loose out on a whole stack of cash as well as someone who donates a lot of time thru out the year.
Regular mac4x4 crews will know who i mean and just how much he does for macmillan

Now lets say bloke x gets his motor kitted, fueled, serviced etc for free but raises 20/30k and spends all his free time helping with a charity thats fair enough.

Bloke y gets his motor sorted and fueled but only raises a few quid and does little else thru the year then thats where the problem lies.

Gray area is the bit in the middle....
How much is enough, how much free stuff is too much

Bit difficult for me as i will most likely be in a motor that's provided for me. Bit different as a marshal but you see the dilemma, although last year still cost me over 1k (admittedly some of that may have gone on beer and skittles, but not much, honest...)

Last year when we wera orginising the auction we did,we asked Costco for a donation something like a telly to put in to the auction.
They said no to this but were quite willing to give us something to help to actully do the rally.
We never followed this up.
But this shows some places would rather help you do it than give you something for the charity.
We did have a tent donated to us to do the rally last year but we are going to be selling it this year and that money will be going in to the pot

TEAM WOODY's

I have got to come in and say that we for the second year running (was not team woodys last year), have a fuel sponsor. With the little one this year the team would have struggled to afford rally, without.
However there is no secret about this, I never get given cash prior to the event. At the conclusion of the rally I submit full accounts to my sponsor including all the receipts, which within a few days I am lucky enough to receive a cheque for the amount.
If I did not take this money for the fuel the sponsor would not just give money to H4H, this is his say of supporting the charity. Further to that he asks for no publicity for this.

Eventhough due to my son being born in Sept 2012, and being let down be a couple of companies our fundraising has got off to a slow start. However we have got a day outside Sainsbury's, charity clay shoot, in the next couple of months and Asda just after we return from the rally! I hope that we will raise certainly in excess of £5000 not as much as I would have liked however still a reasonable amount of money.

Just to second what Team Muddy Pigs have said, it would be wholly wrong to stand out with buckets collecting money which people believe are going to injured soldiers, but in fact the money was to fund the trip.
However if companies/individuals would rather assist in the teams being able to take part, and therefore raising money I really do not see that causes an issue.

However I would say that people if sending letters out to companies who they do not know, care should be taken in the wording, as Nick has rightly made the point we do not want this event to get a "Begging" reputation. This would ruin the the massive hard work that the organisers and everyone that has taken part, in raising money through this great event.

Well said danny, these are the circumstances I refer to when I say that some teams couldn't do it without! Good luck this year mate n look forward to helping you at your asda collection on your return

Cheers Dan.

Further to that can I just show my support to the AA crews that have been on the rally, they are great and willing to do anything. However as people have already said they should not be used for basic maintenance that should have been sorted before going on the event.

Hope to see them all this year, fingers crossed I dont need there assistance.

On the other side of the coin, I would point out that the Rally is only the catalyst to raise funds for H4H.
Not being able to afford to go on the Rally doesn't mean you can't support the charity by fundraising.

Jan

To be fair absolutely correct and I can only thank Dan & Kat for there help they have given us.

Magpie wrote:

On the other side of the coin, I would point out that the Rally is only the catalyst to raise funds for H4H.
Not being able to afford to go on the Rally doesn't mean you can't support the charity by fundraising.

I agree also, it doesnt stop you fund raising if you're not taking part.

However, personally if i'm not taking part in the rally, then my focus is drawn towards my other voluntary work.

If im doing the rally, then thats where my commitment is, my spare time around my shifts (7 on 2 off) is spent raising money for the rally, and going towards the rally effort and my fundraising focus' completely on it.

However if im not doing the rally, then my fund raising effort will be spent on scouts, youth groups, the charity sailing trusts, st john ambulance - etc etc etc.

I do that much voluntary work that to be fair, i dont have "days off" im always doing something scouty, im a District commissioner so have alot of responcibility and work to do for that, then all the others slot in around it.

so although i agree it doesnt stop you fund raising, i know alot of people on here have other large commitments that might take priority when they're not partisipating in this awesome event!

Hope that makes sense, its not that im saying if im not doing the rally i wont help fund raise, its saying i have loads of other voluntary commitments begging for my time too. As said, im not going this year, but im still trying to do my bit by helping the woodies and others out.
But if the organisers accept us along next year, then our fund raising will be focused on the rally as we will be physically partisipationg in it, therefore as its a "one off" the fund raising takes priority for that and everything else will slot in around it

All good discussion, and I don't think for a minute any of us would take the pi$$.

I did have a discussion with another 4x4er yesterday, who has never taken part in any of these 4x4 charity events (but would like to, so was asking about costs) and he made a good point.

If theses events can be done in standard 4x4s, with normal camping kit (OK, cold weather excepted, perhaps), which they can, then there should be absolutely no need to get support or help, financially, or otherwise, to kit out the best expedition truck ever!!! That really should be at the owner/team's own cost.

Fuel and entry fee is the biggest point of financial discussion. Which can be considerable. I spent a little over £900 on fuel during the rally last year, and I know a few who spent more than that, one of them, a lot more.

Indeed they can be done in standard 4x4's with normal camping kit, so i agree with you there, no financial support should be given, that said, it depends what you consider financial support.

is a company sourcing something for you at cost price financial support? or is its just that you've made good enough links in your life to get the best price?

For example, i've helped a few members on here to get things from Mantec at cost price, so the company isnt donating or "loosing" money, just not making any either!? is that financial support? or is that me finding bargains and helping everyone out? the people on here, have paid the same for example that flatdog would pay to buy it from mantec, just without the middle man mark up?

Personally i dont consider this financial support but does anyone else? as far as i see here, everyone is "paying" just getting it for a good price?

Dan

Dan, I think your volunteer work and commitments are admirable. Long may you continue - the groups involved are lucky to have your time, enthusiasm and energy.
Well done!

Wasnt trying to make it about me
just using me as an example haha!
i know there are loads of people on here who do far more than i do, i just struggle to do it all around my current shift pattern i guess!

Jan, you are a saint, and the ammount of work you two do is just amazing and you're such lovely and caring people!

I can only hope one day, i will be able to raise the sort of money you guys do!
Team muddy pigs are a real young team, and we're still learning, and without support of others on the rally, we could never ever look to raise large sums of money!

hopefully see you on start day?

Dan

Yes, hopefully we will be there on start day!

Wow what a discussion I have missed out on.

It is indeed a grey area.

This year I am having to seek assistance financially in order to participate. With going back to Uni, the usual Self Employment fun of people going bump on you owing Money. Oh and there is the Zombie500 song and video we are doing in order to raise lots more money than i did last year.

I have approached many people, some who are interested in assisting me. The letters I send out are personal to the companies. I go out my way to call first and seek out the person I should direct my request to.

No where in my letter does it ask for bits, or for help in my costs. I state that any assistance goes a long way to making lives better for those we are trying to help. On the discussions I have had so far with prospective sponsors I mention the running costs (entry fee and Fuel) and let them decide where they may like to donate. My opinion is as above. I keep records of entry fee costs and fuel costs. End of rally then what ever is left goes into the collection pot.

With the costs of everything these days I see no wrong in having financial assistance from sponsors so long as it done correctly. If it allows more money to be collected in the long run then its the greater good that wins.

I do agree that corporate sponsorship shouldn't be used for kitting up of trucks. A standard 4x4 is all that is required.

On the note of the AA, I can personally say that it is good to have them along. With the age of some of the trucks, even ones that are maintained pristine, things are bound to happen. I for one had to call on the services during last years rally to get me back to the camp site. The only spare I didn't take along broke. They also assisted, along with the organisers, to find me a replacement part. I then acted out my own repairs and only lost half a day. Without them, I would have lost a day or 2 couriering parts from the UK.

I believe there will always be a grey area when it comes to corporate sponsorship. But I find that if you operate with honesty and don't try and use/abuse it to your own personal advantage, then no harm is done.

The aim of the event is to raise money to help rebuild lives and help out our forces. It also about camaraderie of the rally family in helping each other round the trek. And yes, p taking and laughing is all part of it.

With all things being well, the Jeep will be on the start line again this year.

Now back to my uni work as I have become a little sidetracked

Interesting discussion and in my opinion you view funding the rally as you would a vacation, i.e. you work out how much it will cost and put money aside accordingly. I view fundraising as the core reason for taking part and every penny raised goes to H4H. Sadly we are finding it tough down here to fund raise. I have approached a number of businesses locally asking for a donation and if they donate to H4H (not me) I will put their name on the truck. Sadly I have no names yet.
Bye the bye, I am a retired police officer and I paid £25 for my new set of wiper blades from County Land Rover! I resent people who try to blag equipment for themselves on the back of a charity.
We look forward to being on the rally amongst friends who also believe in our Armed Forces and the sacrifices they make.

Cheaper from halfords if you blag a trade card.