serious question-roof lights

Anybody know the legal rules for roof lights. I know that normal spot/driving lights have to be wired into full beam but what is the position regarding lights mounted on a roof rack-can they just be wired in to a on/off switch and whilst many vehicles have them,are they actually legal under construction & use regs and MOT ?
Tony

Your only allowed by law two full beam/ head lights, so if you want them on the full beam then you need to wire extra switch to turn them on/off(so they don't come on in the MOT), if that makes sense

mine are wired to an on/off switch so I just turn them on and off when I like, they aren't wired into the full beam switch

Mine are wired in to the main beam on an on/off switch.

Yeah, officailly they're not legal for normal road use. My switch is on all the time so all 8 come on with the full beam but just the roof lights can be turned off whenever.

Theoretically as well roof lights on a landy are illegal if used on the road as they are above a certain height (Can't remember what it is), but behind the axle. Most people just run them connected to main beam, thats how they did when i worked at a dealer anyway.

This is the interpretation in the current MSA Blue Book -

Electrical Systems
18.5. Vehicles must have a maximum of four forward
facing beams, as well as side and indicator lights,
unless further restrictions are specified in SRs.
18.5.1. Light pods are not permitted.
18.5.2. A headlamp must provide the main beam and
dipped beam functions.
18.5.3. An auxiliary lamp provides a beam other than
that provided by the headlamp.
18.5.4. A headlamp may consist of a single reflector
with a dual filament bulb, or separate reflectors each
with single filament bulbs providing the functions of
main beam and dipped beam separately. This will be
considered as equivalent to a single dual filament
headlamp unit. Lamp units comprising two reflectors
where one is fitted with a dual filament bulb will be
considered as a combined headlamp and auxiliary
lamp. In this instance therefore no additional auxiliary
lamps may be fitted.
18.5.5. Auxiliary lamps using gas discharge technology
are not Permitted and gas discharge headlamp units
may not be retrofitted.
18.5.6. Auxiliary lights must not be used in neutral
sections except in poor visibility as permitted by
law.
18.5.7. Where more than four beams are fitted as
standard, only four may be used and the remainder
must be rendered unusable for the duration of the
event.
18.5.8. Vehicles must have all lights fitted and used
according to motor vehicle lighting regulations.
18.5.9. External navigational or Marshal lights are not
permitted.

However, we as scrutineers can be 'bribed'

anon

I think you can be bribed for anything can't you bill

Harry how could you suggest such a thingy?

Only where "HEADLIGHTS" or secret start locations are concerned

aye, I am really 'HOT' when it comes to heedlichts

just a thought with the cars being checked before we go is there anything major we need to have i.e i think you need a high viz vest for france or is it things like car saftey i.e fire extinguishers etc etc just so i can sort it before i set off and not in a rush when i find out the night before ..

Yes to yer question.

That said, you will be receiving a 'must have' e mail in plenty of time before the start.

Just remember the 'petty cash' as I will be checking your car............

I still need to get a few cheap bits
Red warning triangle
Fire extinguisher
Spare bulbs

Think I've got a few hi-viz vests somewhere

and remember the heedlight beam thingys.

Liddle and Aldi's are the cheap'st

The Final Regs will contain a copy of the Scrutineering Sheet - for transparancy so that you are fully prepared both from a safety aspect, legal aspect and know what your are expected to carry. We don't want anyone failing Scruniteering - but if it doesn't pass it doesn't start and it's a 'nil refund'- and there's no bribery whatsoever on this very important elelment of the event. Sorry guys; safety comes first.

The FRs will go out at the end of May - together with a coded message re the start venue.

We'll supply the code at the start itself!!!!!!

Signed, an ever helpful organiser!

evo4x4 wrote:

The Final Regs will contain a copy of the Scrutineering Sheet - for transparancy so that you are fully prepared both from a safety aspect, legal aspect and know what your are expected to carry. We don't want anyone failing Scruniteering - but if it doesn't pass it doesn't start and it's a 'nil refund'- and there's no bribery whatsoever on this very important elelment of the event. Sorry guys; safety comes first.

The FRs will go out at the end of May - together with a coded message re the start venue.

We'll supply the code at the start itself!!!!!!

Signed, an ever helpful organiser!

so we have a while to ponder over the code then!!!

id advise just taking millions of cable ties to strap everything under the bonnet down lol

Beam deflectors? Not on my car you don't

I have a man who asks the butler to tell the chauffeur to flick a switch and it magically switches the beam over

On a serious point, will you be forbidding cars that have roof lights fitted? I have a couple of brace of LF140s on the rack, one set with wideangle filters switched on/off regardless of the state of ignition or lights (useful for setting up camp at night) and the other switched so they can come on with main beam or can be left off. These latter ones are spot beam pattern - they can't be switched on unless I am already on high beam AND press another (illuminated) switch to activate them so they don't come into play when driving on the road.

Alan - Not my rules; I can only quote -

18.5.7. Where more than four beams are fitted as
standard, only four may be used and the remainder
must be rendered unusable for the duration of the
event.

'Duration of event' means whilst travelling; ie not stationary.

Why did the Disco 3 we had from L/R over the w/e have continental deflectors on it; mind you we never saw the Butler either!

im confused now.. so if i have 4 spots on the roof and two on the bull bar i can only have them on a switch for on/off for off road use or is it i cant have them on my car all together

My switch is either
ON: Roof lights come on with full bean
OFF: Only the headlights and A-bar spots go on with full beam

Jack - You can have the additional lights on the car but;

'only four may be used and the remainder
must be rendered unusable'

This doesn't stop you using additional lights if stationary per Alan's example of setting up camp.

In short, if you are on the public highway, no more than 4 lights (excl sides etc) can be used ie be lit. These rules follow MSA regs.

MSA events inc 'real' rallies and speed. We are not a speed event thus I'm sure all the 4x4s taking part will have sufficient lighting through the 4 lights allowed. If the lights are for 'show', and not more than 4 are used overall, then no prob.

NoDo$h wrote:

Beam deflectors? Not on my car you don't

I have a man who asks the butler to tell the chauffeur to flick a switch and it magically switches the beam over

On a serious point, will you be forbidding cars that have roof lights fitted? I have a couple of brace of LF140s on the rack, one set with wideangle filters switched on/off regardless of the state of ignition or lights (useful for setting up camp at night) and the other switched so they can come on with main beam or can be left off. These latter ones are spot beam pattern - they can't be switched on unless I am already on high beam AND press another (illuminated) switch to activate them so they don't come into play when driving on the road.

beam deflectors

mine dont even point straight in this country!!!

evo4x4 wrote:

Jack - You can have the additional lights on the car but;

'only four may be used and the remainder
must be rendered unusable'

This doesn't stop you using additional lights if stationary per Alan's example of setting up camp.

In short, if you are on the public highway, no more than 4 lights (excl sides etc) can be used ie be lit. These rules follow MSA regs.

MSA events inc 'real' rallies and speed. We are not a speed event thus I'm sure all the 4x4s taking part will have sufficient lighting through the 4 lights allowed. If the lights are for 'show', and not more than 4 are used overall, then no prob.

this is why i wire all extra lights to just an on/off switch!! saves all this confusion!

evo4x4 wrote:

Why did the Disco 3 we had from L/R over the w/e have continental deflectors on it; mind you we never saw the Butler either!

Some D3s have Halogens. In true LR style, the spec level at which you get HID headlamps has moved around like a glass at a sceance. Up to 2005 the S, SE and HSE had them, then it was SE and HSE only, then SE only when fitted with the winter pack and HSE all specs and more recently HSE only. Then there's the bi-directional HIDs that were an option for HSEs, that have additional lights for cornering. All very Citroen DS.

Anyway, enough of the spec geekery. HIDs have a beam refocus switch whereas Halogens still rely on deflectors.

evo4x4 wrote:

Why did the Disco 3 we had from L/R over the w/e have continental deflectors on it; mind you we never saw the Butler either!

Some D3s have Halogens. In true LR style, the spec level at which you get HID headlamps has moved around like a glass at a sceance. Up to 2005 the S, SE and HSE had them, then it was SE and HSE only, then SE only when fitted with the winter pack and HSE all specs and more recently HSE only. Then there's the bi-directional HIDs that were an option for HSEs, that have additional lights for cornering. All very Citroen DS. Hello? Anyone still with me?

Anyway, enough of the spec geekery. HIDs have a beam refocus switch whereas Halogens still rely on deflectors.

And the butler was a limited offer, only available if you test drove a Full-Fat Range Rover